does the ketogenic diet work for weight loss

Does the Ketogenic Diet Work for Weight-Loss? [Podcast Episode #102]

Bacon. Cheese. Peanut butter.

I can eat these, and all sorts of other high-fat foods that are traditionally outlawed from a health diet, and lose weight? And, not just lose weight, but lose weight quickly?

That's the claim proponents of the Ketogenic Diet make, and with thousands of pounds of weight-loss backing up these claims, people are listening.

Is Keto just another low-carb diet, or is there something that makes it special? And most importantly, is it a healthy choice for you?

​Does the Ketogenic Diet Work? [Full Text]

Dave Smith: Hey, thanks so much for joining me in this episode of the Make Your Body Work podcast. As you know, this show is all about helping you live a healthier and happier life.

Today we're talking about maybe the most popular, I'm going to say in air quotes, "fad diet" that's out there right now. I know the term fad diet usually has a negative connotation. I'm not necessarily saying that. We're going to talk a little bit about the positives, the pros and cons of this specific diet. Maybe you've heard of it, the ketogenic Diet.

This topic was raised by Michelle. Michelle wrote in and very simply she said, "Dave, what's your take on keto Dieting?"

This is something that maybe if you follow health news, you've probably seen this over the last couple of years. Ketogenic Diet has been used for people to lose a lot of weight very, very quickly. There are some naysayers out there that say it's not healthy. There are some people who are huge advocates of it.

What's the truth? How does it work? What is it going to do to your body? Is this something for you to try? If you're going to try it, what would that actually look like? These are all questions that come to mind when I start thinking about ketogenic Dieting.

I've gone out and found an amazing guest today. He's been in the fitness industry for years. He owns a company that's devoted to bringing information about healthy living but specifically healthy eating and supplementation to the masses. I'm very excited to introduce to you, Ben Brown.

​Meet Ben Brown

​Dave: Hey Ben, thanks so much for joining us on the show today.

Ben Brown: Hey, Buddy. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Dave Smith: Maybe you can start off by telling the audience a little bit about what it is that you do. What is BSL Nutrition all about?

Ben Brown: Yeah. Right on. BSL Nutrition stands for Body Systems Labs. Body Systems Labs is a nutrition and health education and supplement company. Our goal is really to make smart nutrition simple, to help people make the best decisions, the easy decisions, right? Because there's so much conflicting information in the media and in the health space that we're just perplexed as to what we're supposed to be doing. What is the right choice? What's the easy choice as we struggle with our health and fitness goals?

​The background of that, Dave, is that I come from a personal training and nutrition coaching background; I was a personal trainer for year and years. I have a Master's Degree in exercise and wellness.

I've gone down the road of doing strength and conditioning for athletes. I've worked in the physical therapy population. Then I've just spent years and years working with the general population, mostly for fat-loss clients.

As I was in the trenches, if you will, I continued to study nutrition. I've always been fascinated by nutrition and supplementation, mostly as it pertains to ... or the impetus was to help fix my own health issues as most of us in the health space have had our own personal stories and struggles.

The struggle you faced yesterday developed the strength you have today.

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I had a lot of gut issues growing up, a lot of food sensitivities. What I later determined was a pretty gnarly H. pylori infection, which is a bacterial infection in the lining of the stomach. I had to start to study functional medicine. It was like studying nutrition.

Got into more functional medicine. Got into some diagnostic testing, looking at gut health and looking at adrenal function, and detoxification function. That's when I stumbled upon what I was looking for, for my own personal needs.

​Along the journey, I was obviously learning a lot of information that I could then take and apply not only to my own personal needs, which I did and healed my gut issues, but also was how can I use all that information positively to help my clients with their health and fitness goals?

Along the way, got a secondary degree in clinical nutrition from the University of Bridgeport and then got to the point where I was getting burned-out with personal training, one-on-one coaching and had ...

At that point, I had start to develop ... which we can talk about later, but I had started to develop my own supplement. A supplement that is an all-in-one workout powder that's a blend of all nine essential amino acids and some pre-workout ingredients, and all-natural sweeteners and no stimulates. It was through that process that we developed BSL Nutrition.

​Again, it's Body Systems Labs Nutrition. Body Systems was my coaching company. Then we have since parlayed that into BSL Nutrition, which again, is really just our goal to get out because I no longer do health coaching per se.

Now it's really just a means to put out the best quality health fitness supplementation information possible and just share the love and interview great people like you and just provide people with cutting edge of what they should be doing for their health and fitness goals, if you will.

Dave Smith:​ I love your story. There's so many things I want to touch on there. First I want to say that ... so this is ... I think we're on Episode Number 102. Yeah, 102 for the Make Your Body Work podcast. I'd say out of everyone that I've interviewed, probably 100 of them have a similar story where they were searching for something that was broken in their own life; health and fitness-wise.

Then along that journey, they start realizing all this other stuff that applies to people who maybe have dissimilar health issues and they just want to share that message. It sounds like that's what it was for you. I was wondering if you could expand on that a little bit?

Talk about what was your personal journey like. You said you started to do research. You said you started to apply it to yourself. How did your healing happen. How did that go?

Ben’s Personal Healing Process

Ben Brown:​ Yeah. As far back as my freshman or sophomore year in high school, maybe even before that, I had been struggling with stomach issues. It was what was diagnosed by conventional medicine as acid reflux. I would get really severe pain and burning sensations in my stomach. I would throw-up a lot. I'd have a lot of irritable bowel-type issues.

As we learn how our body functions, what we can eat, what we can't eat, I figured out over the years what I should be eating, what I should be staying away from, and being into sports, always being pretty health-conscious, being pretty cognizant and aware and wanting to obviously look good as a young male and being in the gym.

I was really interested in nutrition as a byproduct of not only that, but wanting to find out what was best for me with my issues. It just made sense that going into college I studied physical fitness, I studied physical education at University of Arizona. Then I played rugby for University of Arizona and continued my love of fitness, if you will, and studying nutrition.

Then I went to ASU, Arizona State University for grad school. I did an emphasis in strength and conditioning, so working with a lot of athletes at the time. Shortly after that, I started my own personal training business but all along the way, it was always with the underlying objective of figuring out what is best for me? How can I feel the best? Never really resolving those gut issues but just putting them at bay.

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Again, as understanding like I should be avoiding gluten. I do better when I'm not drinking alcohol and when I'm avoiding dairy for the most part. I can't do too rich of foods. Then, through that process I stumbled upon a functional medicine practitioner in Northern California named Dan Kalish. Dan runs a huge clinical medicine practice, if you will, where he works with a lot of health practitioners teaching them how to utilize functional medicine in their business.

I was at the forefront of that clinical training program. This was 2006. I had recently finished my Master's Degree from Arizona State. That really opened my eyes to how we can be using diagnostic testing to dig deeper into our biochemical individuality, to our own individual needs.

​As you are well aware, we all are so individual. We all have very different needs, very different protein, carbs, and fat needs. Very different ... just genetic predispositions to exercise, to caffeine, to sleep.

It's the same thing on a diagnostic testing on adrenal, on a gut health level. Through that process, through that education process, I was able to identify with some gut issues, as I said H. pylori. That had been with me for ... I think, quite some time, that possibly, yeah, I even got from my mom.

That is quite common for people to have, and using herbal-based treatment to help get rid it, it really awakened me to the alternative medicine side of things, to the clinical nutrition side of things, and boosted my fascination for clinical nutrition, for individualized nutrition from that point forward. How I was going to utilize it with my business and with my clients.

Genetic Testing: A Helpful Starting Point

Dave Smith: You're fortunate. Hearing you tell your story, I'm a little bit envious that you got into the diagnostic side of things at an early stage in the game when you were quite young. I know my audience is going to be familiar with this, but just this past year I did my first round of genetic testing, DNA testing.

The results that came back, it was so funny because it was, for the most part, things that I knew but things that had taken 10 or 15 or 20 years of experimentation and elimination diets and trying all kinds of stuff in the gym. I got there on my own, but it took almost two decades. That idea of ... like you talked about diagnostics and using that before you have to go through all that experimentation, that's so powerful.

Ben Brown: ​Yeah. I was very fortunate to have been working with those types of practitioners to have been able to implement it in my business and to really learn the pros and cons of it. I'm absolutely fascinated with the DNA testing. I have yet to utilize it on myself or any clients, if you will.

But I do have some colleagues that have started to utilize it and so I'm very interested, it's going to grow significantly of course over the years in terms of what we can determine from someone's potential, someone's genetic potential and what their individualized needs are.

I'm a little reticent right now from how our environment is impacting the expression of some of those markers and how the environment is going to affect our ability to take advantage of some of that data.

What I mean by that is, potentially we all are susceptible to environmental toxicity and it’s how our body ... how we can support our detoxification pathways that for some person may determine how well they can burn body fat.

Where in a genetic test, it could be as simple on the genetic test to saying, you are a more metabolically efficient at doing higher cardiovascular, more aerobic type exercise versus more anaerobic type exercise, or more cardiovascular exercise versus strength training, right?

As trainers, especially this day and age we may say, everyone needs to do predominantly strength training, and maybe minimize the amount of intense cardio, and where the genetic test may be suggesting that someone would do the best from a cardiovascular standpoint.

What I'm suggesting is, from a fat loss standpoint, it may not be either, it may have a lot more to do with how we are managing our environment, right? What's the expression of our environment on our ability to burn body fat? Does that make sense?

Dave Smith: ​Yeah, it totally does. I completely agree, there are a number of companies out there that are offering genetic testing, and the differences in how deep they dive is huge, between one company and the other. I've heard people ... clients or just people on social media send me their genetic test and a very superficial testing, I agree with you. It's actually, can be detrimental because it can lead you astray, especially if someone is trying to read the results on their own.

I do think they're a deep dive into the genetic testing, at least gives a starting point and that ... for me I'll speak from my own personal experience, there are a couple things supplement-wise that I implemented, and just very small things. I started to notice, very quickly, changes.

For me, it was energy level, and once I started supplementing with a couple vitamins, I could feel the difference, and so, as you start to see those changes, you can play around with different components of your results. If you have good results, and if you someone to lead you through those results.

​I completely agree with you, it can be confusing if you're just looking at the basics, and especially if you don’t have a background in interpreting that.

Ben Brown: ​Well, that’s the cool thing about any kind of testing is it gives us a starting point, and a lot of times that’s just what people are looking for or needing, is they just need somewhere to objectively start, especially for maybe a more type-A person, or even from a coach to be able to better facilitate information. That's what I think is really one of the most valuable aspects of any of the testing that we can do regardless of how right or wrong it is.

What is one thing you're 100% sure about that would positively affect your health. Start there. Do that.

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​So What Is Ketogenic Dieting?

Dave Smith: ​I'm sure we could keep on talking about DNA testing and all kinds of stuff, but actually, it leads well into our question today, because you said something that was powerful early on, and you said, everyone is unique, you really emphasized that point.

Michelle, she wrote in and asked a very simple question, she says, "How do you feel about keto dieting?" That’s such a broad question, so sorry to drop that one on you, but in general terms, can you tell us a little bit about what is keto dieting and how do you feel about it, again, in general terms, and then we'll dive down a little more specifically.

Ben Brown: ​Sure. The ketogenic diet is something that we've seen a massive increase in popularity over the last few years, to the degree that I think everyone has probably heard of the term ketogenic dieting before.

For those that aren’t aware, ketogenic diet is a diet that really is a primarily high-fat diet, and so we talk about a diet, we talk about how much protein, carbs, and fats, those three macronutrients we should be getting from our food.

A ketogenic diet is somewhere around 75%, and there's varying degrees depending on what we’re talking about, which I'll get to in just a little bit, but somewhere around 75% fat, about 20% protein and somewhere around 5, so 5% carbohydrate, which is very, very different than what we’re used to with the standard American diet.

​In fact, the standard American diet may be somewhere around 40 to 50% carbohydrate, if not more, 20 to 30% protein, and the remainder from fat, for those that are familiar with a paleo diet or a low-carb diet per se. That would be basically 35 ... let’s say 30 to 40% protein, maybe around 20% carbohydrate, and again, the remainder from fat, so another maybe 30 to 40% fat, if that makes sense.

This is a very low-carb diet, so I'm sure all your listeners are familiar what carbohydrates are, but carbohydrates are things like ... any kind of grains: rice, potato, pasta, bread, but also things like fruit and things like vegetables. There's difference between the low starch and the high starch vegetables.

The ketogenic diet is a high fat diet that people are starting to utilize. Now, to be clear, it's something that’s being utilized in the research, so there's some really good research on ketogenic diets as it pertains to some different disorders, the biggest being epilepsy. Researchers have been using and studying the ketogenic diet for the last 60 to 70 ... the last 60 years, there's some pretty good studies from the '50s and '60s.

Looking at a ketogenic diet, so a high-fat but extremely low-carb diet, on its effect on epileptic patients and mitigating or minimizing, if not eliminating those epileptic seizures that people are dealing with.

It’s really firmly rooted as a medical therapeutic intervention. One of the most interesting things about the ketogenic diet is what it does to our metabolism, and what it does to how we burn body fat. The use of the ketogenic diet is something that these researchers stumbled upon, if you will, as a means to replicate the benefits of fasting, and so we've known for thousands of years.

Using the Ketogenic Diet to Replicate the Benefits of Fasting

This is something that we've known about the treatment of epilepsy for thousands of years that fasting has a tremendous benefit. There's literature that ... BC, 400 BC, that suggests that fasting for three or four days created an elimination of epileptic seizures.

​What we see from a ketogenic diet and what the research shows from a ketogenic diet is that when people are consuming a primarily high fat, moderate protein, and very low carbohydrate diet, they can mimic the effects of fasting, which is very cool, because who wants to fast, right?

No one wants to fast yet we know there are some tremendous health benefits, and those extend far beyond just that of treating epilepsy. Now we're seeing the benefits of fasting on longevity, we're seeing the benefits of fasting on blood sugar and insulin management. We're seeing the benefits of fasting on brain function.

​What it seems to be ... or what it's specifically is about the ketogenic diet is the conversion of how we utilize energy. When we switch to ... what most people are used to is kind of a moderate to probably, with the standard American diet, moderate to higher carbohydrate diet, is we burn primarily glucose, primarily sugar as fuel. That's fuel that we break down from our foods, right, when we have oatmeal or cereal or fruits and even vegetables.

It’s fuel that’s broken down and stored in our muscle and liver, that our brain uses, and that our muscles and liver use to help us with energy, not only in sports, in intense sports, and during space sports, but also just in day-to-day function and just brain function, and things like that.

When you switch over to a primarily high-fat diet, and you do it for an extended period of time, then what your body does is it stops being able to rely on that glucose as fuel and it starts to rely on ketones, which is the metabolic byproduct of breaking down fats as fuel.

It’s just very, very interesting, one, that the body is able to do this, because as ... Dave, as I'm sure as a fitness pro you're well aware that we're told constantly that glucose is the body's primary fuel source and we have to have carbohydrates for survival, when it seems that we really don’t.

That our body has this unique mechanism of relying on our fat stores, and the fat that we take in from our diet as a primary fuel source. Not only to fuel our muscles, and our liver, or to provide our liver with fuel for our muscles, but really to fuel our brain.

​There's some very, very interesting research suggesting that we can think more clearly, we can have better cognitive function when we are relying on those ketones as a fuel source. That one thing about the keto diet is as compared to many other diets is there is a strong amount of evidence supporting it for certain therapeutic modalities.

Now, as is the nature of a diet and as is the nature of fads, of the nutrition trends is it’s becoming more popularized in the fitness and nutrition realm with strength athletes, with body builders, as a means to lose body fat, and that we're not quite so sure as to the effectiveness of the keto diet for that type of stuff.

​I think the jury is still out if we were to take keto diet and compare it to a high carbohydrate, moderate protein, low-fat diet. What we know, Dave, and I think you probably agree is what's most important especially for fat loss is that we are managing calories.

As people like to do, they like to change things up, they like to look for the newest fad and with there being so much media attention to the ketogenic diet, I think it’s something that makes sense that it’s gaining popularity, especially with the potential health benefits.

Is Ketogenic Dieting Sustainable?

Dave Smith: ​I totally agree, and Ben, thanks. That description of it was awesome. I think that was very clear on how our body goes into ketosis, and what that actually physiologically does.

My next question and you started to allude to it already is, what are the long-term ramifications of being on the diet because as you talked about, it’s so popularized right now, and I'm sure that many of the listeners can think of someone or someone that they personally know, or someone they’ve seen on TV who has experienced big fat loss success by going keto. I know that. I have people that will write to me all the time and will say, "Hey, I lost 15 pounds in the last, you know, two weeks and isn’t this great?"

​The next question is sustainability, because I know for me, from a fitness professional standpoint, I have no interest in helping people lose 15, or 30, or 50, or 100 pounds if it’s not sustainable. What do you think keto for sustainability?

Ben Brown: ​I can't really, I think there's very few people that a ketogenic diet is appropriate for sustainability in today's day and age, for long-term sustained fat loss, meaning something that they're likely to stick with long term, if that makes sense.

Now, listen, it is a completely different story if we’re talking about specific types of cancer, which they're alluding that's some type of research and this is far beyond the scope of my practice, but I think it's worth looking into for people. Because again is, it seems there's a lot of ... there's a strong therapeutic approach to certain genetic defects for people, defects in carbohydrate metabolism, certain brain issues, certain types of cancer, again, epilepsy.

It's also a completely different story, and if we’re talking about ... from a medical standpoint, but if we're just talking about for general health, for weight loss and sustained weight loss, I can see very few instances where this is going to be a realistic diet for people to stick to.

I say that coming from years and years, going on 15 years of working with general population clients, and athletes too. Is it doesn’t really matter, and I have the feeling that you would agree especially you working with females.

Dave Smith: ​Yes.

Ben Brown:​ If we're talking about busy moms, if we’re talking about pre/post-menopause, it doesn’t really matter. As you and I both know, the key is what is sustainable and what is something that someone can manage realistically, helping them improve their habits, to help them lose weight. I think it’s something that can be very effective short term, and could even be implemented here and there. I just have a hard time seeing anyone doing it with any kind of longevity realistically.

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Dave Smith: ​Ben, you guessed right. You and I are on the same page, but if you had a different opinion, hey, I'm always open for learning, but you and I do land on the same spot as it might produce results in the short term but just sustainability, it is so drastic.

Like you talked about a couple times, specifically compared to the typical macronutrient balance of a Western diet, it’s so different, it would take a lot of work to stay on it. A follow up question for that though, and this gets off keto a little bit, you probably hear from clients or people who come to you for advice, they'll say things like, "I'm gonna try this diet to lose ..." whatever, 10, or 15, or 20 pounds, "And then once I've lost that weight, then I'll go into maintenance."

​They might use a different word but basically they'll say, "I just need something to kick start that weight loss and then I can maintain it." How do you feel about that?

Are You Eating Quality Food?

Ben Brown: ​Yeah. I guess, again, it always depends ... some of the things that I really try and looked at when working with clients is kind of what's the readiness for change and commitment to change, and what's their level of nutritional knowledge. Because that's going to be a huge indicator of where is an appropriate place for them to start?

If we're talking about someone that has a long history of ... maybe they’ve been eating really well for a long period of time and they’ve done a great job managing their weight loss, and they're very familiar with what their macronutrient intake is, and aware of what they're eating on a daily basis and managing their exercise and their stress.

It’s just the situation where they're like, "Look, I just need a little bit of a jumpstart, then I'll jump back into my healthy eating habits," versus something that really has no clue about what it means to manage their calories on a daily basis. Doesn’t know what it means to eat healthy from meal to meal, has no comprehension of what their hunger and satiety signals are.

Then it’s a very different world, in which case I would strongly suggest that they avoid those types of diets, those types of fads, those types of things that are going to be, again, not realistic long term, right?

Dave Smith: ​I think that's really wise advice, the idea of maintenance requires some level of understanding of what it would take to maintain a lower weight. I agree with you, I think that most people, particularly those that jump on dieting trends, like you said, keto is so huge right now, a lot of people are drawn to the splashy Ads, or the impressive stories that we see on TV or online.

Those people quite often don’t have that understanding that it would take to implement even keto safely, and then let alone actually sustain some weight loss after the fact.

Ben Brown: ​Yes, so it doesn’t ... again, as it doesn’t matter what diet is, diets work to the degree that they force you to restrict calories, because that's going to be the biggest driver of weight loss. Anything we can do to help us create more awareness around reducing our caloric intake is going ... potentially be beneficial from a weight loss standpoint, wouldn’t you agree?

Dave Smith: ​Yeah, for the most part. I think calories are a big component of it, I think quality of calories are also a big component of it.

Ben Brown: ​Absolutely, I would agree completely, but anything we can do to help people create more awareness around not only the volume of food that they're eating but the types of foods that they're eating.

If someone doesn’t have any awareness as to how much protein they should be taking and how much carbohydrate, even Dave, like what are my protein sources? What are my carbohydrate sources? What are the healthy fats that I can be consuming? Can you imagine suggesting to someone that has no experience tracking their food, has no experience with maybe managing their macros or playing around with their protein carbon fat intake?

Then maybe that'd be coming from a more Western standard American dieting, and predominantly processed carbohydrates and then suggesting, "Okay, now we're gonna switch you to eating primarily fats," and saying, "You know, now you need to be eating ..." I don’t know, say, 150, 200 grams ... let’s say it’s a female, 200 grams of fat a day.

​I think that in many instances, it’s just adding more stress. Again, it's something that's not very realistic.

Dave Smith: ​I 100% agree with you, speaking, again, personally, years ago I read ... You're familiar with Weston Price's work, and his famous book, Metabolic Typing Diet.

Ben Brown: ​Of course.

Dave Smith: ​As I was reading through that and did some assessments and such, it suggested that a higher fat ... I'm not talking about like keto level of high fat, but a higher fat diet would work well for my body.

I remember even feeling stressed about thinking, "Where am I gonna get these fats from," and then, "what foods am I going to cut out?" This was coming from someone who works in the industry, and it was even that big of a shift, so yeah, to completely flip your diet on its head, I just don’t know how anyone could even approach that.

Ben Brown: Yeah. It’s hard enough just getting people to ... That’s the art of us being coaches, is getting clients to create more awareness and start to change their habits in a realistic way. We know more often than not, is if you're going to take it from a fad diet approach, saying, "Here I want you to completely disrupt your current eating patterns, completely have to change around what your current lifestyle and eating habits are." Then the likelihood of change is going to be very small.

​Then, second to that is the difficultly. It’s one thing if we’re talking about just getting someone to start to understand what their ... just even saying like, "Look, I want you to consume 35% protein, you know, 40% carbs, 25% fat," right?

Just getting someone to understand, "Okay, well, what does that actually mean from a caloric standpoint? What does that mean from a meal to meal standpoint? How do I take ... how do I take the foods that I'm normally eating and start to build out that plate?" That can be extremely challenging, and so it takes a significant learning and adaptation process for most people to start to wrap their heads around that.

​Make Your Body Work Takeaway

Dave Smith: ​Again, you and I are really on the same page here, I think awareness, most of us go through a day eating with no concept of what that means calorically and what foods have what sort of macro balance. We're on the exact same page.

Ben, I do want to get to what I call as a Make Your Body Work takeaway, and we talked a lot about keto, imagine for someone who’s listening to this, who is thinking about going on a ketogenic diet and has maybe heard some of these success stories, and would really like to try it for himself or herself. What would your recommendation be, should they avoid it altogether, is there some baby step that they could do? What would you recommend?

Ben Brown: ​My recommendation would be ... is of course, as always, it depends on the person and what their readiness for change and commitment level is, and your current nutritional knowledge.

If it's someone that's already been used to tracking their macros and has a very pretty good understanding of how they're factoring in their calories on a daily basis. Then by all means, go for it. I mean, why not? Just give it a shot, start to play around with it.

Again, as we’re so individualized and you might find something that it works really well for you, assuming that it’s something that you think is going to be realistic for you to stick with.

If it's just something that you're getting excited about, you're not really sure about ... you don’t really have a structure for your meals currently, it’s just sort of ... like, "Oh, I gotta find out where my next meal's coming from. I gotta manage the kids. I gotta manage, you know, my work, I end up eating out all the time." then it probably is not the right next step for you in terms of your nutritional change

…and really what you probably need to do is take a step back, create a little more consistency and routine with your meal structure. Make sure first and foremost that you're not eating too much from meal to meal.

Then the next steps would be creating more [learnings 00:35:08] around your meals to the degree that then when you have that understanding, like, "Okay, now I have a better understanding what it means to be consuming 75 to 80% of my food from fat," how I'm going to build that in. Then go for it.

Getting a basic understanding of what you need to eat is the first step to living a healthy life.

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How to Connect with Ben Brown

Dave Smith: ​Again, I think that's ... that's just such a wise plan that applies to everyone. That idea of getting a better sense of what it is that we're eating, get some basic understanding about calories, macronutrients, and once we’re there, once we understand, then maybe playing with some of these more extreme dieting types, whether it’s ketogenic or something else. Then maybe that's something that we could take that next step with.

​Ben, can you tell the audience, if they want to connect with you, because you're just full of so much knowledge, I know we just talked about one subject today, but if anyone has any questions for you about their diet or about supplementation, I know that's something you're huge on. How do they best connect with you?

Ben Brown: ​Yeah, you can find us ... a lot more information on nutrition, fitness, and supplement at bslnutrition.com, that’s our website. We do have, as I mentioned, an all-in-one workout powder that is all natural, no artificial sweeteners, no stimulants, and something that we formulated for people to use in and around their workouts that’s going to provide them with a complete protein source; a very easily digestible protein source.

As I mentioned, I have a long history of struggling with some stomach and gut issues, and so I primarily developed it, not only for myself but for other people that can't really handle whey or plant based protein, that wanted to really maximize the number of products that we're using in and around their workouts.

Weren’t really sure what to take but wanted something that tastes great that was going to be very effective at helping improve energy and recovery from workout, one workout to the next.

​That is our product called Complete Essentials, and that's at bslnutritionshop.com, but we're really here just to provide the best quality, simple and easy to implement health and nutrition education possible. Then of course, we’re on social media, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram @bslnutrition.

Dave Smith: ​Awesome, and for the listeners, if you go to makeyourbodywork.com/102, I'll be putting all the links, a bunch of the stuff that we talked about today, including links to Ben's website where you can check out everything that we talked about today.

​There's one other thing, Ben, that I found on your website, you have a giveaway, it’s called the perfect pre-workout meal. I was just reading about a guide to eating before you exercise, and that’s something that I get asked about a lot is, what should I be eating before and after workout? That's something that the audience might be interested in checking out as well, and I'll link to that in the show notes as well.

​Ben, awesome, awesome for having you, thanks so much for taking the time out of your day and for sharing some just really great wisdom about ketogenic diet and just healthy living, healthy eating in general.

Ben Brown: ​It’s my absolute pleasure Dave, thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it, and I appreciate what you're doing for the field of health and fitness.

Dave Smith: ​Thanks again, Ben, for joining us on the show today and just for some awesome insights into ketogenic dieting, how it works, why it works, what does it do to your body, and then how to get started safely, if at all.

Thanks to everyone who tuned in today, I hope this shades some light on maybe some of the stuff that you've heard in the media, and hopefully brought a little bit of truth to a lot of hype that’s out there right now. I think Ben did such a good job of describing not so much is the ketogenic good or bad, but are you in a position to make use of a dieting tool like the ketogenic diet.

​I'll ask you as I often do, as you leave this episode of the podcast, what did you take away? What message was really important for you, and where do you think that you lie in terms of using the ketogenic diet or some other diet to spark weight loss? If you have any questions about that, specifically for yourself, specifically more about ketogenic dieting, other types of dieting, anything else health and fitness related, feel free to email me at [email protected].

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I love hearing from you. Honestly, it is what makes my job worthwhile, I love hearing from you, I love helping you, and who knows, maybe your question could turn into the next episode of the podcast.

​That's it for today, I can't wait to see you here, again, next week.

Does the Ketogenic Diet Work

Thanks for joining me today!

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